MyDD :: Does Osama bin Laden Still Matter?

Does Osama bin Laden Still Matter?

by southerndemnut, Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 07:03:24 PM EST

While it is not particularly shocking, but surprising none the less, Pakistan has recently admitted that the trail for Osama bin Laden has gone cold.

President General Pervez Musharraf, in an interview with The Washington Post, indicated that Pakistan has scaled back its efforts to find Osama bin Laden. Since 9/11, Pakistan has been at the forefront of this new terror war, sharing a border with Afghanistan which many think harbors bin Laden. Musharraf indicated that it has been some time since Pakistani intelligence operatives have had any concerete leads on bin Laden, or any of its top associates. Musharraf also indicated that he assigns some of the blame on the United States, who he believes has understaffed Afghanistan and has shifted its attention away from that country to Iraq.

In the 2004 elections, 'morality' was clearly a top issue for many voters, and the issue which gave Bush a second term. What is interesting, however, is that terrorism and the Iraq war, per se, were not particular good issues for the President. Exit polling has indicated that among those where the Iraq war and war on terror were the top issues, the President lagged behind Sen. Kerry. It is this author's personal opinion that Sen. Kerry did not go after Bush on the inconsistencies on the war on terror since 9/11, preferring to straddle the Iraq War issue. Much can be said of the 'abandonment' of Afghanistan, both as a military exercise, as well as in the effort to find Osama bin Laden. Given the fact that Osama has not been caught, and the Bush administration evidently downplaying the threat that bin Laden poses, it begs the question, does Osama bin Laden still matter?

Tags: World (all tags)

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Huh? (none / 0)

While it is not particularly shocking, but surprising none the less

by cerebrocrat on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 07:28:06 PM EST

It was almost expected (none / 0)

Pakistan admitted that they can't find Osama bin Laden, and that he may never be found. While that was always widely believed, rarely does the leader of a country admit to such a fact, especially to a newspaper. Our history with Afghanistan has been troubled and disturbing - we paid little attention to the country until the Soviets invaded in 1979. We then proceeded to covertly and overtly support the mujahadeen who were fighting the Soviets. Among them was Osama bin Laden who received millions in US assistance as a leader of the Afghani resistence. With the pullout of the Soviets in 1989, we all but abandoned the country which led to the rise of the Taliban and subsequently the rerise of Osama bin Laden and his brand of Islamic fundamentalism. Suddenly with 9/11, Osama was back in the radar of the US. However as time waned, attention towards bin Laden has also waned. It was not lost that bin Laden was hardly even mentioned during the course of the recent Presidential campaign - and issue that this author believes Sen. Kerry could have used effectively against Bush. Attention shifted to Iraq, which had little to do with 9/11, and while Saddam Hussein was without a doubt a tragedy towards his own people, poised almost no threat to anyone outside of Iraq or the US.

So while we discuss the effects of the Iraq war, gay marriage, and the amount of church each one of us attends, the admitted architect of 9/11 remains free.

by southerndemnut on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 07:45:05 PM EST

I believe OBL matters (none / 0)

bin Laden matters. One has to wonder about the threat France would've posed without Napoleon, or Germany without Hitler. He is our enemy.

Yet, we shouldn't lose sight of what Michael Sheuer, author of Imperial Hubris says convincingly. Namely that OBL is leading a movement in the Islamic world. Many Muslims are frightened of our immense power and presence in their societies.

Ultimately, though I posit that he is relevant due to the message he was sending in his Oct 31 tape. He is starting a political wing of al-Qaeda. Much like how Sinn Fein was started by the IRA and just as Hamas has a political wing.

This will enable him to fully exploit Fallujah so that it would look more like Jenin did to the Israelis. The media savaged Israel and rightly so. When OBL is able to marshall these political powers to exploit a Fallujan=Jenin angle in the world. He will truly inflict harm on us. It will take a toll on our people abroad. It will hurt our mulitnational corporations. Meanwhile he's killing us on our soil and abroad.

He matters. A lot

by erickh on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 07:52:43 PM EST

Re: I believe OBL matters (none / 0)

In the scheme of things, yes he does matter, but to the administration and the Christian right, I don't think he does matter. Bush doesn't need his boogeyman anymore and I really don't think he cares about setting up his party for future success (which should work to our advantage.)

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 08:38:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All the Bush Lies (none / 0)

All the Bush lies are coming to light, yet he was considered the more honest of the candidates. I don't know whether I am disgusted more with the media for letting Bush portray himself like this, the public for being too ignorant to form an opinion based on information other than 5 second sound bites, or Kerry for not being able to establish himself as the more honest of the two.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 08:36:27 PM EST

Re: All the Bush Lies (none / 0)

I know how you feel. Only one time when I asked a Republican why they were voting for Bush, she said,"I don't believe women should be able to receive abortions,Idon't believe that gay people should be able to marry. I believe in the Iraq war. I oppose affirmative action.

Okay, I can understand that. I don't see the world that way, but I can understand it. Every other time I would hear, that Kerry flip-flops. What has he done in the Senate? Bush is strong. It drove me crazy.

And now, we are so weak compared to where we were in Jan 01 when Clinton handed the country to Bush, I'm scared to think where we will be four years hence.

A Liberal Primal Screen

by erickh on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 09:10:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Osama Bin Laden does NOT matter (none / 0)

The "War on Terror" was over thirty days after we invaded Afghanistan. Al Qaida was destroyed and Bin Laden was hiding in a cave. Kerry's mistake was clinging to his pretense that invading Iraq was ever justified. This is the danger for Democrats attempting to "out warmonger" Bush and the neo-cons.

Richard Clarke was absolutely right that the invasion of Iraq was Bin Laden's dream come true. The war in Iraq is a monumental terrorist recruiting tool and the biggest foreign policy disaster in American history.

by Gary Boatwright on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 10:17:28 PM EST

Well (none / 0)

Musharraf has been almost killed twice this year. Could he have an interst in not catching Bin Laden? I think Pakistan and their intelligence agencies know more than they're letting on.

I think that if Musharaff captures Bin Laden part of me fears that he may be the target of assassination.

Or am I off base?

by jiacinto on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 11:34:15 PM EST

Re: Well (none / 0)

they outsourced the job to afghan warlords who were against us the week before.

The Kentucky Democrat

by kydem on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 11:36:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What Kerry might've been thinking. (none / 0)

I think Kerry laid off of Osama Bin Laden as insurance in case Bush produced OBL between July and October. I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry decided his odds were better with that particular genie still in the bottle - especially if he didn't trust Bush to actually catch him, but instead claim he'd caught him, thus capturing the "Catch the SOB, now!" vote without actually improving national security. At least that's how I rationalize watching him not play what seemed like a good hand.

What Kerry was thinking about Iraq, I hope (because it's the least implausible explanation) was that if he'd differed from Bush in any substantial way, he'd be accused of not "supporting the troops!" - a crock of shit, I know, but bad PR - and that he was hoping that people would recognize who oversaw the fucking-up of Iraq, and who wanted to change things.

by Chris on Mon Dec 06, 2004 at 12:24:55 AM EST

Abandon Afganistan? (none / 0)

We have just witnessed the first democratic election in Afganistan in the history of that country and you say we have abandoned Afganistan?! A good leftist/socialist never lets the facts get in the way of his world view. You used to be able to lie about this sort of thing. No more. People see the progress in Afganistan and Iraq despite your attempts to re-write history. You are a very dishonest lot. As therapy, stand in front of a mirror and say "I am a leftist, not a moderate". Do this 25 times before you eat breakfast. You will find you feel much better for being honest!

by Robert A August on Mon Dec 06, 2004 at 12:14:46 PM EST

OBL--Muhammed's Chosen One (none / 0)

You bet he matters! He is up there with the Madi in the book of Islamic anti-imperialist heros. As a icon of resistance able to outwit the infidels, his psychological impact on jihadists is incalculable. They don't have JDAMS, Spector Gunships, or tanks but they got Allah on their side.

And just to continue my thoughts on the parallels between the Phillipine Insurrection and the Iraq mess: the islands were not pacified until after the rebel leader, Aguinaldo, WAS CAPTURED ALIVE in a briliant piece of contra warfare by General Funston and his Macabebe scouts in 1901. Two more years of brutal jungle warefare followed successfully.

by Muy Loco on Mon Dec 06, 2004 at 01:54:25 PM EST

OBL Matters, but not much (none / 0)

As a matter of simple justice, yes, OBL matters. He was the major co-conspirator behind the 9/11 attacks, and he's made it clear he'll do whatever he can to attack us again. From that perspective, saying he "doesn't matter" makes as much sense as saying Terry Nichols "didn't matter" to the OKC bombing.

But capturing/killing OBL, or Zawahiri, or anyone else, won't end the threat of anti-American terrorism. This isn't just a matter of "kill all the bad guys and you win," as Shrub seems to believe. As long as our policies are as hated as they are in the rest of the world, there will be those who attack us over those policies. Unfortunately, we seem totally incapable as a nation of learning that lesson.

If you're always playing the fear card, it's a pretty good sign you're not playing with a full deck!

by Mathwiz on Mon Dec 06, 2004 at 04:24:26 PM EST

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